I reached out to Bj Rodriguez to find out a bit more about his background and his music making process. Here is that conversation.
Brendan deVallance: It seems like what you're doing is very DIY. I mean, you're recording the music yourself, you're making everything and putting it out there, right? And I understand that the level of work that is. I listened to that, that stuff you have up on Spotify, I was like, oh, this is in my wheelhouse. This is the kind of stuff I like. I think you've got a good take. There is sort of sometimes primitive sounding, but I'm sure it's not primitive. I think it's really good, I really, I really like it. You have the one song that stood out too, was I was listening to “Ultra Violet”, where you mentioned Clementine. The fruit or a person?
Bj Rogriguez: Actually, it's supposed to be a person, but like a moniker for anyone, basically. It is supposed to symbolize, a person's name, a person, a woman or something, you know, it could be anyone, but yeah, it doesn't have to do with that. Like it's true. It's also a little reference to all the artists that I like. And it's a small nod to System of a Down. At a certain point in one of their songs, they mentioned Clementine, but and that's all it is just a little reference. It's not deeper than that, but it's also that.
Bdev: So, all right, let's start with official interview type questions. You live in California. And so tell me, how long have you been making music like this?
Bj: Well, I started playing, just playing music, learning guitar and stuff when I was 13. But I would say I started actually making music and recording stuff. I started, playing shows at the time I was like 15.
So that'd have to be about almost 20 years. I've been actually actively trying to make music.
Bdev: And have you, did you ever play with other people in a band?
Bj: Never, no, I guess when I was really young, it was like garage bands, but it wasn't anything serious, me and friends. I’ve been in a couple little bands like that, but I never was in a more professional setting. I've never worked with a band. I've only had people perform for me, like instrumentalists when I play live. A few times I've had people help me out.
Bdev: I see. And you, you don't really have a label, right? You're just doing this yourself.
Bj: Yeah, yeah. I'm just doing it myself completely.
Bdev: Do you try to send stuff to labels or see if you can get people interested that way?
Bj: No, not necessarily. I don't really know if I even want to go that route. I kind of like the pirate ship route that I'm on. I've just from seeing other people who, you know, are in the industry and who are more like in the business side of it. But there's things that there's freedoms that I have that as long as I can, if I work hard and if I can make it, this way, I'll have more freedoms, you know, rather than making it the other way, by label or anything like that. I don't know if I even want to go down that route.
Bdev: Well, that's really interesting, I think. Well, it's an interesting time for what you're doing, because here you can have incredible equipment at your dispos at your disposal, right, with just a simple computer and you can have, you know, you're obviously figured out how to get your music on Spotify and put it up in other places. So I think it's, that's a really interesting take because it seems the way the monetization of music is working these days is not necessarily great for the artists, right?
Bj: Yeah, especially if you're on a label right now, of course, because I'm completely independent, I get 100% of the revenue. And so if people on labels, when it comes to streaming, they don't really get any money. They make little money from streaming, whereas if I can keep all the rights for myself, all the licensing I own everything, then it's actually not a unsustainable living. You know, as long as I can make the fan base or whatever, you know? I'm just, of course, also, just starting. So I'm kind of naive to certain sides of the industry and stuff.
Bdev: So when you are playing, what's your, what's your main instrument? Did you start on guitar?
Bj: My main instrument, I would say is guitar. But my second, because I I went to college for music I don't know if it's like this in all of when you go to college for music, but at least in my program, you had to pick a main instrument to study the almost four years. And I chose piano. So I'm also pretty adept at piano because I played classically, I played Beethoven and stuff like that. So it's not necessarily my main instrument. I played guitar mostly and since I started, but I really like piano.
Bdev: Well, you have a lot of keyboard stuff going on in your songs, too, at least on the most recent stuff. I was going through what you had posted on Instagram, and there's that real early thing where you have a guitar and a little tape record and some other, and you were making some really great stuff there. It was from a few years ago, I thought that was really cool. Because I I love that sort of primitive electronic. Usually the electronic stuff tends to go more Kraftwerk, right, which is very kind of sterile. But when stuff gets kind of gritty and I think there's a lot more people, maybe your age, that are exploring that to a very a good level, which I appreciate.
Bj: Yeah, yeah, you hit it on the nose. I mean since I started, um, what's the word, I'm trying to think of the word for when I was serious about making music and not just a kid. Like in my room making music, but when I was studying seriously, ever since I first started I’ve been serious about it. I've always, when you said primitive, you were right on the nose that I always look at a different kind of way, but it's the same thing. I like electronics, I like electronic music and stuff like that, electronic sounds, but I don't necessarily like how cold and just lifeless and the way I called it the whole primitive thing, I always called it that, I tried to make it sound organic, which means, the same way a guitar is real vibrations and, you know, a piano is hammers hitting a string. I try and make any synthesizer or anything electronics I use, I try and maybe mix it or do certain things, maybe just adjust the sound of it, do certain things, whatever it is, to make it kind of sound like that's the one word I can think of is organic. Yeah, just a real sound you can have a sample of a glass bottle crashing on the floor, but it's completely different than if you record a glass bottle crashing on the floor. There's those real vibrations you get out of it. So, yeah, I've always, that's actually a main focus when it comes to the electronics in my music.
Bdev: That's great. And what do you what do you use to record the music? What programs are you using for recording?
Bj: Before I would use, when I first started, an old 8-track mixer and stuff. I'm actually overhauling my studio right now, so , hopefully the next album will be a lot better. I use an Alan Heath, QU 24 for my mixer. And then, yeah, I record onto the Garageband. Oh, actually, now, this album, that's starting from here on out, I'm gonna be recording on Logic.
Bdev: Well, I think it’s interesting and depending on the audience it has relevance. Do you know TapeOp magazine? It was it was started probably 20 years ago or more, by a guy who was a recording engineer, had his own studio in Portland, Oregon, and he just started making a zine about recording from the trenches. The rarefied world of audio recording is kind of very snobby and very hard to find out about. It’s for people like us who are more DIY, real good, interesting information. And it's just filled with great interviews with people and a lot of nerdy stuff about reviewing apparatus and microphones. But it's from that side of the music, which is kind of interesting to a lot of people. You know some of the greatest rock and roll records of all time were recorded with four track equipment like Sergeant Pepper by the Beatles, right? So if you've got four tracks, you've got what they had, you know And so, you know, what can you do with that? Is sort of like an interesting question. And now when we have, you know, almost limitless amounts of tracks and the technology is so amazing. I like the idea that I read one time that Steve Albini was talking about, because he's a real famous producer who loved analog equipment. He liked tape and there was a point when that fell out of fashion and everyone was doing everything digitally, and he started buying up that equipment because he was really, he really thought that was the better sound. But he also said that, you know, the thing is it used to be when you had a band and you wanted to make a demo, it would cost you $5,000 or more, right, to go into a studio and record demos and then try to send them to a label. But he said, now it's democracy. It's like anyone with a laptop can record a record in their bedroom, which is, I'm sure what you started doing in our our still in a sense doing, although now you're making more of a pro studio because, you know, you want more, right? You want it to be better. And then when you're doing it yourself you can take your time, as much time as you need and you're not running up bills and you're not.
Bj: Oh, yeah, but I mean, I've heard horror stories just because of the work that comes along with making songs, it takes time, and the way that they charge is, they book it by time. And so, yeah, I've heard of running up high studio bills because of that.
Bdev: So I think you're, I mean, I love the way you're doing what you're doing. And I think your end result is just great. I mean, I think I was listening more closely to the music yesterday and today. And I was just kind of marveling at a lot of the different, I’m going to call it textures, within your music, that's the word. The way the drum, like some of the drums, that's electronic drums. Oh, but that's not electronic drums. Or, it seems like you're choosing very carefully what you're putting in what part of the song. And, yeah, it can almost seem endless.
Bj: There's one of my songs, I have, it's real drums, but one of the snares on the four beat is electronic, and then the other ones are just the actual snare one when I was playing. If it sounds right to me, if that's what it needs to be, then that's what it needs to be, then. That's what I do. Even though it might seem pointless or people might not even notice something small like that.
Bdev: Well, and accidents happen and wonderful accidents happened, right?
Bj: Yeah, and a lot of times it's that some things that happen go better. So, like you said, with textures and things like that, a lot of things, the way I aim to record, sometimes it's not necessarily to make it sound the best. Sometimes it sounds better if it's a little more lower or the way it's recorded sounds a little more gritty.
Bdev: Yeah, that's really great. I imagine if you're like me, you're always working on your next thing. What, uh, do you have another record that you're putting together at this point?
Bj: Yeah, I do. I've already been working on ideas and all that notes and stuff. I was just about to start recording, start recording the beginning process of recording, but that's when I started overhauling my studio. So as soon as I get done with that, I'm gonna start recording it, but, yeah, I've just been writing it, so far.
Bdev: That's great. Yeah, I think that one of the things I've found in music and art, I mean, most mostly beyond I'm making music myself, I've done, I'm a performance artist, and that was sort of my main thing for many, many years.
Bj: Yeah, I actually, I looked up a video. I saw like an interview with you and it was really cool. I've always loved stuff like that. I'm huge into it, I'm a huge art nerd, so there's nothing that's too weird for me. If anything, I like to live in that space. It's more interesting.
Bdev: So I've concentrated more on art than anything, but, but music's always been a part of my life. And you have to try to get yourself out there, promoting everything. It's kind of a lot to do all the all the pieces, which is why I think most people realize, well, I'm good at writing the songs. Let's get other people to distribute it and get it in people's faces.
Bj: Yeah, and it's a fair trade, you know, because the label does do a lot of work, setting up the tours and all that stuff like that. So at times it is a fair trade if you want to go that route.
Bdev: I think it's interesting your perspective on it. And here you are. You get a fair amount of listens on Spotify. It's not nothing, right? I mean, people are listening to your music and you, you're getting it out there. It takes a lot of effort, to make it, to produce it, and to get it out into the world. But your point that you have more control, which in this day and age, that might be the key, right, to how it all works is keeping the control yourself.
Bj: Especially there's more of an ability with the availability of technology and as long and with the internet being able to reach people.
Bdev: When I was young the only way, when punk rock was new and the only way to listen to the music was you had to go by the record. They weren't playing it on the radio, and if you didn't get the record, you were not going to hear the music, it's so different now. It's different now than it was like 10 years ago, right?
Bj: Yeah, even when I when I was playing first started playing shows and stuff, but back at that time, the only way people could get my music was basically if they found me, actually saw me in person via show or knew me as a friend or something to physically buy the CD from me. So, you know, I didn't I didn't even have a way for people to buy it on the internet at the time. That kind of technology wasn't super easy to just a teenager in his room.
Bdev: Well, it was difficult to send a song. An MP3 was too big to send, right? You couldn't email someone at MP3. And there wasn't a site where I could, as an indie get my music up there for people to even buy MP3s during there was no DIY type. And are you on Bandcamp as well?
Bj: No, no, not on Bandcamp. I like distributors who offer independent people now. The distributor I go through, I think it's like this with a lot of them, though. I think Bandcamp, you have to put it on that for just some reason, it's separate and you have to do it yourself. Kind of like SoundCloud, you have to upload it yourself. For some reason, distributors don't upload to it. And I honestly, I kind of, because I make a little scratch from it from streaming, and I kind of like the idea that people can listen to it for free. I almost don't even want to sell it, it if we can both win in this situation, you can listen to my music for free and I'll still get paid from it. I know people would like to support maybe, but I don't even know if I want to, you know. And that way, it kind of feels like yes of course, I'm gonna take the money, you know, if someone wants to pay me, then yes. I just, I kind of like that it's available to people. And I think I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think if I put it on Bandcamp, then people might feel the obligated to buy it. And I don’t want to put that on people.
Bdev: Well, sometimes I know with a lot of friends of mine who are super do the right thing kind of people, that they feel if they're enjoying someone's music, they do want to give them some money, you know what I mean?
Bj: I know that there are people that don't see it as a negative. I'll gladly accept your money.
Bdev: But I understand it's sort of like if you're putting it out there in that way, you're kind of asking, right?
Bj: That's how I feel. Like you were saying, I'm one of the type people I really like, I'm not even really a huge fan of actual Batman. I don't like watch much Batman or read the comic books, but I'm a huge fan of Batman himself and all the symbolism of it, because for me. I always tell people that when people ask oh, why? I think certain people are just instilled in them that what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. It's just upsets you when something is unjust or unfair just because even though it has nothing to do with you, just because it's wrong, you know? So unfortunately, I'm one of those kind of people. It makes making money a little more difficult. But I don't want to be that way anyways.
Bdev: Well in some ways, you're potentially putting yourself in the situation where it's not like you're going to make that much money.
Bj: I always say I like to be able to sleep with myself. The things that people get out of going down those types of routes are not worth the how I feel about myself, you, being able to sleep with myself and know what I think about myself, my dignity and all that.
Bdev: Yeah, I hear you. I think that's very interesting. So you're obviously putting a lot of thought into what you're doing, I'm just definitely saying I'm a fan. I like the music.
Bj: I appreciate that so much.
Bdev: Do you have other people around you that like in your area there of California (High Desert Area) that are kindred spirits making music in a similar vein? Or are you a little bit of an island out there?
Bj: Honestly, you know, besides my brother, because my brother also makes music. But besides him and even him, he kind of is in a different place musically. I think the music scene here is more conventional. Whenever I do see, when it's open mic type stuff and, people, you know, novice type stuff. And it's usually just a little more conventional mood, just like rock and roll or something like that. I don't know everyone here, I don't know the whole scene, and I'm speaking also about my specific area, because of course in LA it ranges from everything. It's all out there. But in my specific area, it's more conventional. We're a little more behind, I guess you'd say, or less progressive, when in terms of more experimental things.
BdeV: Well I'm in Phoenix, Arizona, and I grew up here. So when I was young, we would often go to LA to see shows. You know it was an eight hour drive, but we would do it if it was something something big we wanted to see, or something we'd just go just to find out what shows we could find. But I know when a big city like LA or New York or is going to have almost every genre of music, it's going to be represented. Sometimes it's interesting how environments create scenes like you've got the Seattle grunge scene or, you know, the punk rock in LA or in New York and how sometimes it's sort of part of the environment that that has something to do with creating the scene itself where you have sort of like-minded bands, which like-minded bands are going to be booked into the like-minded club, and then the like-minded people will show up to those shows. So sometimes those things take off. But I know in today's world where you kind of have the internet and you potentially have , you know, you potentially have fans in Japan, you know, or, you know, anywhere on earth could, you know, find your music, you know, interesting and want to listen to it. So the internet has made the world very small, but also very different.
Bj: Yeah, I guess to answer back to that, the whole the scene type thing is that by me, I get, because you get aware of the high desert, right? Are you aware of where Victorille is?
BdeV: Yes.
Bj: The only kind of indicator that's thing that's indicative of the scenes, Queens of the Stone Age are from here. So when it comes to people from the desert, there is this kind of outsider, which, I will agree also, goes for me as well, is that this's kind of outsider, more estranged from society type. The people who live on the edge, the fringes of society, that's the word I'm looking for. The people who are more on the fringes of society, I guess, and then that kind of mind state also carries over to the art and stuff that comes out of here, I think. Because like I said, where I am specifically, the music scene, there's not even really a music scene. I don't know other than Queens of Stone Age. I don't know anyone who really has even come out of here yet. I don't think we really have a flagship sound or something like that. I could just not know much yet, about the whole scene here and everything.
BdeV: Well, sometimes you need a club, right? If there's a little bar or a club that'll be like, oh, we'll put on live bands and live music. In Phoenix, which it's got a big population, but in some ways, it's a bit of a small town. But for some reason, there's always been a very interesting underground music scene. And that's what I was part of in the early 80s .
Bj: You know, now that you say that, see, I guess I'm just thinking right now, because I'm not really, there isn't much going on in terms of that right now. I will say I that when I was younger, there was definitely a scene. I think maybe, I said there is something, a scene right now that I just am not aware of when I was young, because the clubs closed down, that scene kind of died. But there was a post-hardcore type scene going on, kind of like screamo, emo type scene going on. And there was, it was like that where there was a few clubs that I would rotate that I played at that were the regular spaces. And that was also where we, everyone, all my friends and we would all go see shows and stuff. And like I said, there could still be something right now, and maybe I'm just too much of a hermit or something.
BdeV: Well it looks like it's kind of a small town that you're in and sometimes, when things come and go, it really can affect things a lot. Here in Phoenix I'm surprised at the amount of clubs and just the amount of bands, like small local bands that are just playing their own music. It’s fascinating.
Bj: You know, to me, I think that the main thing for success, the thing I've always believed in it, and it's just for whatever you do if you're a skateboarder or whatever it is if you focus on being a good skateboarder, then that's when things will come, at least, I hope, you know, that's the way it should be, at least. But I think that the main focus should just be, that's what it is for me, is my main focus isn't any of that. If it comes, I'm going to do it, of course. I want to tour. I plan on doing all those things, you know, but I feel if I focus mainly on making good music or putting out a good product, then those things will come. So, yeah, I think that you're, you shouldn't have to be worried about things like that, you know, it should just be about the music.
BdeV: Well, I say, let's hear it for the Spotify ‘Fans also like’ window. I think that's how I found you, because I was I heard somebody and then I looked at their ‘Fans also like’ and I saw your name and then I fell into it. So I think that's like one of the great features of Spotify that I love.
Bj: Like I said before, this is my main thing, I just appreciate your interest in it. So I just appreciate that mostly. Everything else is gravy.
BdeV: So this has been great, and I hope you have great success and I can't wait to hear the next thing that you do.